Transportation Post-Apocalypse: Who gets it right?

[schipelblorp@sh.itjust.works]

One thing I always look at in post-apocalyptic literature is how they treat transportation: notably, are people still driving cars and how long can they do so and under what conditions?

Entering our current oil crunch, I think it's obvious how fragile the ecosystem around cars are, but just letting the car sit unused and untreated for as little as a month can start to introduce\ problems. The idea that you can just pop into a car that's been abandoned for 3 years, pull the keys out from behind the visor, and start driving is unrealistic.

• Best: The Postman. We're back to walking and riding horses.

• Good: The Last of Us, Season 1. People walk or ride horses, when our heroes DO find a working truck, it is treated as the jackpot it is--and I think it even had a spare gas tank in the back to maximize distance traveled to harvest gasoline. Realistically, gas as a fuel for fires would be a valuable enough commodity that it would have been scavenged, but they need to do some traveling and high speed dragons are not available in this genre (Reign of Fire aside).

• Worst: Jericho. Nuclear explosions in the US pretty much wreck everything and despite the town of Jericho being completely isolated, people just drive their pickup trucks around all seasons long without comment. Horses and bicycles are maddeningly present but rarely used. I think the show thought American audiences could accept a premise where the federal government collapses after multiple nuclear strikes, but not where people in Kansas got off oil dependency--that would be too out there.

[schipelblorp@sh.itjust.works]

Worst, Honorable Mention: I didn't watch past Season 2, but I understand the Walking Dead was product-placing current model cars every new season.

[justdaveisfine@piefed.social]

I think you'd see more bikes. A lot less upkeep than a horse, you can find them relatively easy, and they can sit in a garage for months or years and only need some minor maintenance to get going again.

Edit: I can't think of any books I've read recently that depicts primarily bike based transportation though. Probably because it doesn't look super cool lol

[schipelblorp@sh.itjust.works]

I think bikes would definitely be the go-to for utility and ease of repair... but there is definitely a missing cool factor missing for the hero.

I think wild horse populations would rebound quickly, depending on the nature of the apocalypse, making them easier to replace a few decades out.

[buttmasterflex@piefed.social]

I forget the title, but there is a zombie apocalypse book I read years ago where a man, his 1 year old son, and his neighbor escape their town on bicycles with attached wagons/child buggy. They do alright for the most part

[schipelblorp@sh.itjust.works]

And bikes are quieter than cars, too, especially handy around noise-sensitive zombies.

[buttmasterflex@piefed.social]

Absolutely! The Zombie Survival Guide by Max Brooks dedicates a portion to transportation, and bikes are definitely the preferred means. Considering you can coast and conserve energy while still outpacing the zombies (assuming shambler's instead of sprinters), bikes are awesome.

[neidu4@piefed.social]

I don't think horses are common enough to be a common post-apocalyptic beast of burden. Besides, the apocalypse itself would probably cause food scarcity, and feeding the horse would most likely instead turn into eating the horse.

But yes, some elite factions m8ght use them for riding, but I suspect it would be very rare. I think The Postman, despite being an awful movie, has elements of realism, in that Holnists (or whatever the anti-Kevin faction was called) would usetheir power to gain access to horses. Or maybe their founder owned a horse ranch during the apocalypse and that's why they're powerful.

[vince@lemmy.world]

I wanna see people wait months with a tiny solar panel trying to charge their ev so they can drive a couple of miles

[gloktawasright@lemmy.world]

Something else that’s often ignored in these scenarios is that gasoline is not shelf stable for very long. Without refineries or biofuel, most gasoline would degrade within a year from what I understand.

Most realistic would be horses, bikes, maybe biodiesel converted cars or motorbikes and a biodiesel creation setup.
I could also see electric vehicles with solar or constructed wind/water wheel power to charge batteries. But batteries of course degrade as well so that isn’t a long term solution unless you can make and repair batteries. Which is a stretch.

[schipelblorp@sh.itjust.works]

Being able to ride around on that much meat would be a demonstration of a stable society... but it really does depend on the apocalypse. Apocalypses that kill a large amount of people very quickly will have ample canned food for some time, after which wild animal populations would have rebounded, allowing hunting to be more viable.

And, yeah, you raise a good point... cavalry was as huge factor in military victories throughout history, even overlapping with small arms.

[rhynoplaz@lemmy.world]

Cars made sense in the beginning, but after two or three seasons, finding gas that hasn't gone bad would be next to impossible.

[neidu4@piefed.social]

Canned food or not, to project power by riding horses requires that there are actual horses nearby to steal/buy/domesticate. I live in the sticks, and horses are rare even here. You can be as powerful as you want, but you would still not be able to will abhorse into existence.

[schipelblorp@sh.itjust.works]

I think gasoline used to be more stable, but in 2007 the US gave in to the corn lobby and started adding corn ethanol to gasoline, which does limit shelf life. That's right, in the United States we take food and give it to our cars.

Motorbikes + biodiesel is probably as far as I´d be willing to go, but we're well back on the path to civilization at that point. You can kickstart a bike without a battery, too...

[schipelblorp@sh.itjust.works]

Rare, but you could find one. The real question is if you could KEEP one, as valuable as it would be.

But some apocalypses are set 20-60 years out. Horse populations double every four years. You could eventually have a large wild population of horses that could be captured and traded through informal networks, plus stable areas that are using and breeding horses for their obvious benefits.

Edit: I could tell the Postman had good bones and could recommend the novel it's based on: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Postman

[rain_enjoyer@sopuli.xyz]

Not sure where you get diesel motorbikes, but ethanol is easily made gasoline replacement. And also propane while it lasts, because it doesn't go bad at all. Then when it's not around anymore, wood gas is an option

As long as you keep it well sealed, gasoline esp sold in summer should last some decent time, just like winter diesel (less wax to form precipitate). I think one of big problems would be bacterial degradation (yes there are bacteria that feed on hydrocarbons)

[gloktawasright@lemmy.world]

Looks like you’re right about ethanol affecting shelf life, but it goes from 3-6 months to around 12 months. So still an issue in longer term apocalypse worlds

https://universaltrades.co/blog/gasoline-shelf-life-guide-en/

Also, I don’t think setting up a small scale biodiesel plant would be out of the question for a large enough sect of sufficiently educated humans in an apocayse setting. But it’s definitely a step above something that a small homestead could reasonably expect to setup imo.

https://www.wikihow.com/Make-Bio-Diesel

[schipelblorp@sh.itjust.works]

I did a search for a diesel bike and on a national bike sales data base and found nothing; you are more likely to find a horse.

The internet tells me gas can last conservatively up to 12 months, but ethanol no more than 3 months. Most post-apocalyptic narratives are built around travelling, and if people are getting around by locally-produced ethanol, you are doing more of post-post-apocalyptic story.

[gloktawasright@lemmy.world]

I was thinking of a situation where the people had enough skills and knowhow to make conversions of existing bikes.

https://www.motorcycles.news/en/biodiesel-harley-kubota-conversion/

In that situation, you might be better off converting to using propane or ethanol like you suggested depending on available resources and expertise.

Unfortunately, I don’t think you’re right about gasoline’s shelf life however. If stored properly AND stabilized it looks like around 3 years is the best you could hope for.

https://build-construct.com/practical-guide/gasoline-shelf-life-how-long-does-fuel-last-and-how-to-store-it-properly/

[justplaindave@lemmy.zip]

The problem with cars is primarily fuel. Gas is only good for a few months then it degrades fast. Now, they can be made to run on alcohol, but making enough alcohol to be feasible to fuel a car is a pretty big undertaking. Then you have things like oil, grease, and tires. Plus, modern cars are complicated and, honestly, pretty fragile once the roads start to degrade. Without maintenance, roads degrade pretty fast.

If you have to have an engine, motorcycle will be better,. but at the end of the day you still need fuel, oil, grease, and tires.

Horses are fine if you know how to ride and care for a horse. Horses eat a lot, not much of a problem, however, come winter time you're going to start searching for fodder. Horses require a lot of upkeep. Can you shoe.a horse and trim the hooves? No? Congratulations, your horse is now lame and the most humane thing to do is to shoot it. Horses are unpredictable and flighty. You might get lucky and get a calm horse that will comply with your commands, but I wouldn't bet on it. They are prey animals and they are jumpy as fuck. The amount of times I've had a horse drag me into the woods at full speed because it saw a stick that kinda looked like a snake is too many. If you must ride an animal, get a mule. He won't be as fast and might be more stubborn, but he also won't take you anywhere that will get you killed and he'll climb hills and mountains much better.

Bikes: Bikes are great and don't need much maintenance. However, once the roads are wrecked after a couple of winters, they lose a lot of practicality. Another problem is that they require you to up your calorie intake in an environment where that may not be possible or will at least be difficult. Tires are still a problem, but at least changing a bike tire is easy. One problem I see is that once the roads are potholed and grown over, off road areas are even more overgrown, granted, a good mountain bike will still make it through, but you'll be burning even more calories.