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Başvurunu YapTransportation Post-Apocalypse: Who gets it right?
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One thing I always look at in post-apocalyptic literature is how they treat transportation: notably, are people still driving cars and how long can they do so and under what conditions?
Entering our current oil crunch, I think it's obvious how fragile the ecosystem around cars are, but just letting the car sit unused and untreated for as little as a month can start to introduce\ problems. The idea that you can just pop into a car that's been abandoned for 3 years, pull the keys out from behind the visor, and start driving is unrealistic.
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Best: The Postman. We're back to walking and riding horses.
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Good: The Last of Us, Season 1. People walk or ride horses, when our heroes DO find a working truck, it is treated as the jackpot it is--and I think it even had a spare gas tank in the back to maximize distance traveled to harvest gasoline. Realistically, gas as a fuel for fires would be a valuable enough commodity that it would have been scavenged, but they need to do some traveling and high speed dragons are not available in this genre (Reign of Fire aside).
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Worst: Jericho. Nuclear explosions in the US pretty much wreck everything and despite the town of Jericho being completely isolated, people just drive their pickup trucks around all seasons long without comment. Horses and bicycles are maddeningly present but rarely used. I think the show thought American audiences could accept a premise where the federal government collapses after multiple nuclear strikes, but not where people in Kansas got off oil dependency--that would be too out there.
Parable of the Sower.
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Lathe + drill + foundry to cast a big enough chunk for the lathe and drill. Rivets for putting together the frame. (And some power source to run your shop)
Maybe an endmill or even CNC machine, if you're feeling fancy, or welding for the frame (someone else might know what exact kind of welding you need).
Rivets for putting together the frame.
Nobody rivets together a bike frame. Frames are brazed, welded, or (in the case of carbon fiber, bamboo, or occasionally aluminum) glued. The only places I've ever seen rivets on a bike are on the chain, old-school leather saddles, and maybe to attach layers of stamped steel on really cheap brake calipers.
Maybe an endmill or even CNC machine
Or even just a set of hand files.
or welding for the frame (someone else might know what exact kind of welding you need).
More carefully-constructed bikes typically use TIG, and for aluminum you want an AC welder. But who's going to be making a titanium, aluminum, or even fancy steel (with Tange or Columbus double-butted tubes) bike in the apocalypse? Any welding process would work for steel, especially when you're building out of random scrap plumbing pipe or whatever.
Your most realistic options would be stick, MIG, or even just brazing with a propane torch. Or building your bike frame from bamboo lashed together with rope and glued with pine resin.
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Cars made sense in the beginning, but after two or three seasons, finding gas that hasn't gone bad would be next to impossible.
Eh, gasoline going bad isn't quite the on-off switch a lot of the show's critics think it is. I've personally revived cars with years-old gas in the tanks before - sure, they run like shit, but they can still be driven, in an emergency anyway. Or post-apocalypse.
Personally, what grinds my gears, is every abandoned car's battery still having enough juice to start the engine. Nobody ever needs a jump start.
Although, timeline-wise, most of the show takes place over the course of less than two years. It's not until the middle of season 9, the third-to-last season, that there's a time skip of more than a few months.
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Which isn't anywhere near infinite. Humans also run off of grass (wheat, oats, barely, rice...), in most traditional societies.
You're not even saved the trouble of gathering it if there's a snowy winter to get through. Plus, there's shoeing and various kinds of other care to factor in.
??? You don't need infinite grass to feed a horse. It grows. They roam.
Humans need to plant specific species that we can digest, and then process it so that we can digest those parts because we can't eat the whole thing, and then cook it. We can't just eat it raw in the field. This is nowhere near the same. I can't even.
You do know wild horses exist right?
*I think I'm just gonna leave it at that.
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??? You don't need infinite grass to feed a horse. It grows. They roam.
Humans need to plant specific species that we can digest, and then process it so that we can digest those parts because we can't eat the whole thing, and then cook it. We can't just eat it raw in the field. This is nowhere near the same. I can't even.
You do know wild horses exist right?
*I think I'm just gonna leave it at that.
Nice mansplaining, city person. I'm from a farming family, and live in a rural area that has all these things.
You need a certain amount of pasture land (and fodder during the winter). If you don't have enough, the grass runs out - that's called overgrazing.
(And because I've had this kind of argument on Lemmy before, imma point out that the animals you eat probably ate staple crops. On this continent, at least, we grain-finish everything)
We can’t just eat it raw in the field. This is nowhere near the same. I can’t even.
No, you gather it, pull off the seeds, and if you want to avoid a lot of chewing, grind it a bit. I'm sure all ready from your local bakery it seems like magic, but it's not.
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Rivets for putting together the frame.
Nobody rivets together a bike frame. Frames are brazed, welded, or (in the case of carbon fiber, bamboo, or occasionally aluminum) glued. The only places I've ever seen rivets on a bike are on the chain, old-school leather saddles, and maybe to attach layers of stamped steel on really cheap brake calipers.
Maybe an endmill or even CNC machine
Or even just a set of hand files.
or welding for the frame (someone else might know what exact kind of welding you need).
More carefully-constructed bikes typically use TIG, and for aluminum you want an AC welder. But who's going to be making a titanium, aluminum, or even fancy steel (with Tange or Columbus double-butted tubes) bike in the apocalypse? Any welding process would work for steel, especially when you're building out of random scrap plumbing pipe or whatever.
Your most realistic options would be stick, MIG, or even just brazing with a propane torch. Or building your bike frame from bamboo lashed together with rope and glued with pine resin.
The reason I brought up riveting is because you can do it with basic hand tools (and an open fire for hot riveting). If some kind of welding would work, yeah, do it the normal way. You aren't going to have propane, though, and insulating gasses might require some ingenuity.
If you can hand file a bearing that runs reasonably smooth, I'm impressed as hell. Definitely somebody can - the first lathe got made somehow - but it's definitely not me.
Wood might be an option, and bamboo seems like it would be a decent option. Once you're talking wooden sprockets and chains, I'm guessing your going to end up with a pedal wagon more than a bike, though, because it's going to be pretty heavy.
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The reason I brought up riveting is because you can do it with basic hand tools (and an open fire for hot riveting). If some kind of welding would work, yeah, do it the normal way. You aren't going to have propane, though, and insulating gasses might require some ingenuity.
If you can hand file a bearing that runs reasonably smooth, I'm impressed as hell. Definitely somebody can - the first lathe got made somehow - but it's definitely not me.
Wood might be an option, and bamboo seems like it would be a decent option. Once you're talking wooden sprockets and chains, I'm guessing your going to end up with a pedal wagon more than a bike, though, because it's going to be pretty heavy.
The reason I brought up riveting is because you can do it with basic hand tools. If some kind of welding would work, yeah, do it the normal way. You aren't going to have propane, though, and insulating gasses might require some ingenuity.
Nobody rivets a bike frame because it's made out of hollow tubes and rivets are designed to pinch flat things together. Rivets are just the wrong tool for the job.
Of the metal-melting joining methods, I guess brazing is probably the most low-tech. Maybe propane would be a problem and you'd have to use some other fuel instead (maybe wood gas?), but it's been a thing since 3000 BC so I'm sure an enterprising person could figure some solution out.
Alternatively, the flux coating on a stick welding rod is apparently made mostly of cellulose, which is less exotic than I expected.
If you can hand file a bearing that runs reasonably smooth, I'm impressed as hell. Definitely somebody can - the first lathe got made somehow - but it's definitely not me.
Behold, a lathe:
This stuff isn't as high-tech as you think.
But never mind that; depending on what scenario we're talking about it seems likely some machine tools would survive (e.g. in rural areas, maybe), so the trick would be to find one and get it running.
Once you're talking wooden sprockets and chains,
I am not. I'm talking about, say, salvaging sheet metal from abandoned cars and stamping chain links out of that. Nobody wants a wooden chain; if you're that hard-up, you'd probably be better off trying to go for a belt drive or shaft drive. Or hell, even a penny-farthing!
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Nice mansplaining, city person. I'm from a farming family, and live in a rural area that has all these things.
You need a certain amount of pasture land (and fodder during the winter). If you don't have enough, the grass runs out - that's called overgrazing.
(And because I've had this kind of argument on Lemmy before, imma point out that the animals you eat probably ate staple crops. On this continent, at least, we grain-finish everything)
We can’t just eat it raw in the field. This is nowhere near the same. I can’t even.
No, you gather it, pull off the seeds, and if you want to avoid a lot of chewing, grind it a bit. I'm sure all ready from your local bakery it seems like magic, but it's not.
I like you teach me your ways lemmy farmer
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One thing I always look at in post-apocalyptic literature is how they treat transportation: notably, are people still driving cars and how long can they do so and under what conditions?
Entering our current oil crunch, I think it's obvious how fragile the ecosystem around cars are, but just letting the car sit unused and untreated for as little as a month can start to introduce\ problems. The idea that you can just pop into a car that's been abandoned for 3 years, pull the keys out from behind the visor, and start driving is unrealistic.
-
Best: The Postman. We're back to walking and riding horses.
-
Good: The Last of Us, Season 1. People walk or ride horses, when our heroes DO find a working truck, it is treated as the jackpot it is--and I think it even had a spare gas tank in the back to maximize distance traveled to harvest gasoline. Realistically, gas as a fuel for fires would be a valuable enough commodity that it would have been scavenged, but they need to do some traveling and high speed dragons are not available in this genre (Reign of Fire aside).
-
Worst: Jericho. Nuclear explosions in the US pretty much wreck everything and despite the town of Jericho being completely isolated, people just drive their pickup trucks around all seasons long without comment. Horses and bicycles are maddeningly present but rarely used. I think the show thought American audiences could accept a premise where the federal government collapses after multiple nuclear strikes, but not where people in Kansas got off oil dependency--that would be too out there.
the most realistic thing I can think of is greasel conversion of diesels but I have never seen it done in a show. Then you just need farming of vegetable oil. Batteries though become problamatic after 10 years.
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People with lots of money use trucks/cars. People with some money ride bikes. Most people walk.
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